GETTING STARTED SOON

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GETTING STARTED SOON

Post by weletthegoldfishgo » Tue Dec 15, 2009 3:12 pm

I'm about to start posting some labels in the LP's/EP's section as time permits. I don't have an extensive labelography digitized yet, but I'm certainly gonna contribute to this forum since I think it is a valuable resource for identification In fact The 'Record Label' Guide for Domestic LP's by Joe Lindsay has become such a valuable tool for me that I just about sleep with it under my pillow.

So I'm looking forward to helping in this department. And the way I'm going to begin is simply by starting with a label with some of the records I have. I can't do this in chronological or alphabetical order simply because I am not organized in that way. But I think once we get it going it won't be a problem to alphabetize the labels, but putting content within threads in chronological order will probably not be possible. Heck, not every label has an extensive labelography like Decca and Columbia, anyway and may only have one, two or three entries. But even Columbia will not be longer than 2 pages of entries, so it ain't gonna be that difficult to scan and find a particular label and the years it was used.

I hope this sounds good to everyone. I plan to do something here very soon.

CIAO!
Barrie
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Re: GETTING STARTED SOON

Post by hrtshpdbox » Tue Dec 15, 2009 3:22 pm

I dunno, I just looked at the few topics posted in the 45s sections, and didn't see what I would hope/expect to see in a labelography forum, i.e. pictures of labels. I think that there's searchable entries all over the RCG that could be imported to this section; for instance, I just recalled a discussion about Sabina/Sabrina that went on a couple years back, and here it is:
http://recordcollectorsguild.org/index. ... ght=sabina

The relevant posts/pics could be moved here, or the whole thread - I'm sure there's a zillion (couple hundred, anyway?) examples like that to be found here.

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Re: GETTING STARTED SOON

Post by annaloog » Wed Dec 16, 2009 5:08 am

weletthegoldfishgo wrote:... And the way I'm going to begin is simply by starting with a label with some of the records I have. I can't do this in chronological or alphabetical order simply because I am not organized in that way ... but putting content within threads in chronological order will probably not be possible....
The whole point of these "special projects" forums is to present the various -ographies in an organized chronology as a reference section, not as a discussion forum.

You already have one publication to use as a guide to organize your thoughts: Joe Lindsay's Record Label Guide for Domestic LPs. You could also look at oldbillclarke's threads for Canadian labels, or Ron Penndorf's labelographies (such as http://ronpenndorf.com/labelography2.html) for ideas for organizing your research notes.

Perhaps I misunderstand your intent (?), but simply posting scans and leaving the job of sorting through it all for someone else to do doesn't seem helpful. Splitting threads and merging them more meaningfully is time-consuming, and once posted, the phpBB on which the Guild is based only allows sorting by message timestamp.

Please read the Please read before posting sticky. If you are "not organized in that way", you might consider collaborating with someone else (whether or not a Guild member) who is, and present a joint effort.

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Re: GETTING STARTED SOON

Post by hrtshpdbox » Wed Dec 16, 2009 10:47 am

annaloog wrote: Splitting threads and merging them more meaningfully is time-consuming, and once posted, the phpBB on which the Guild is based only allows sorting by message timestamp.
Is there an override to allow mods to post more than two pics in one post? If there was a thread "Atlantic", and one person posted a scan (using the RCG format to ensure the permanence of the picture) of, say, Ruth Brown's Atlantic 930, and then someone else posted a Stick McGhee Atlantic 898, and so on, could a "master post" be stickied that includes them all, sorted chronologically? Maybe incorporating all the bits of info along the way, even when added by members who didn't actually post the picture? In that way, there could be an Atlantic "open thread", where posts of scans and info are put up willy-nilly, and an Atlantic "reference thread", where it's sorted properly. I could see that being time-consuming for mods, yes, but maybe maintenance would only need to be done on occasion after the initial burst of photos and info. I don't know if it's technically feasible, or if the server even gives us that much "room", but that sort of thing might be the way to actually get a usable labelography using the assets that RCG members have on hand (and I think using our own records would be more interesting than just pulling scans off the internet, but that might just be my opinion). Also, just thinking aloud, maybe the Labelography forum can be split into sub-forums for each letter, with relatively known labels (maybe using Global Dog's site as the criteria) getting their own thread, and each letter featuring an oddball category ("Oddball A's", "Oddball B's"). I think something like this could turn into an impressive reference source.

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Re: GETTING STARTED SOON

Post by annaloog » Thu Dec 17, 2009 6:21 am

hrtshpdbox wrote:... If there was a thread "Atlantic", and one person posted a scan (using the RCG format to ensure the permanence of the picture) of, say, Ruth Brown's Atlantic 930, and then someone else posted a Stick McGhee Atlantic 898, and so on, could a "master post" be stickied that includes them all, sorted chronologically?
I would presume that the original author would like to claim credit for his contributions. The only way to rearrange posts in this manner would be for a moderator to edit and post the information, which would then make it appear to be the moderator's work.
hrtshpdbox wrote:... Maybe incorporating all the bits of info along the way, even when added by members who didn't actually post the picture? In that way, there could be an Atlantic "open thread", where posts of scans and info are put up willy-nilly, and an Atlantic "reference thread", where it's sorted properly. I could see that being time-consuming for mods ....
For this reason — the fact-checking itself would take up an enormous amount of time, and probably be outside any moderator's area of expertise — and because of the appearance that a moderator is taking credit for another's work, or editing the content, I would not expect this to be a feasible alternative. I expect that it would be much simpler, and less confusing to the reader, for whoever posts the -ography to do the research and the write-up.

I do agree with you that many of the active members have items which could be used in a community effort to make a usable reference section, esp. for labelographies. I would like to see credit given where due in this regard.
hrtshpdbox wrote:... Also, just thinking aloud, maybe the Labelography forum can be split into sub-forums for each letter ....
JMO, but it might be simpler to create an alphabetical index with links, posted as a sticky, which can be updated periodically.

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Post by hrtshpdbox » Thu Dec 17, 2009 11:11 am

annaloog wrote:I would presume that the original author would like to claim credit for his contributions. The only way to rearrange posts in this manner would be for a moderator to edit and post the information, which would then make it appear to be the moderator's work.
With a copy-and-paste, credit can be given where due:

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Posted: Jul 26, 2008 - 07:46 AM

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annaloog wrote:I expect that it would be much simpler, and less confusing to the reader, for whoever posts the -ography to do the research and the write-up.
Even an expert on a particular label will find that someone else has a bit of info (or, at least, pictures) that would add to the project, thus the value of the collaborative effort.

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Post by weletthegoldfishgo » Fri Dec 18, 2009 5:48 am

Yes, Pat, you are not understanding my intent. I am not going to make a mess of this and I really don't see how that is possible to do anyway. Since I do have the Lindsay book, I do plan on using it as my guide.

I intend to start off with Elektra label since I found really good examples of most of these in my collection, starting with a 10-inch from 1955. That's the earliest example I have. And there's plenty of info about Elektra at BSNPubs website as well to help with my research. I plan to scan the label and tell what I know about it, like what record it's from (even though the label scan will show this info) and a date from the cover and any other pertinent info I can learn from the cover that may be relevant.

My record I'm using is Elektra EKL-29, and wouldn't you know it; the label on my record IS NOT featured in Lindsay's book. So I plan to scan the label, state the pertinent info, and move on to the next label variation.

Just exactly where am I going to learn about how long this particular label variation was in use? I am quite resourceful, but I'm not gonna spend that much time on it. I think I'm spending enough time on it just by including the scan and the pertinent info.

Looking at Lindsay's book, I count 13 Elektra label variations featured. That adds up to just a little more than one page of posts in this thread. Since I have a label that is not included in the book (and there are probably a few more out there as well) we still will feature not more than two pages of labels. How is that gonna be a problem for anyone to read and understand? Why would that Elektra thread need sorting through by a moderator?

I can understand your fears. I'm walking around in your shoes. But here's the deal. I don't have every label example (and Jer has already menioned something like that upthread). So I'd like to contribute what I have, and then I, or anyone else for that matter, can come along later and post a missing label and the pertinent info.

As far as credit is concerned, I don't need any tag line giving me credit. Credit is given when I post, because it's my post.

I don't intend to discuss labels here, just post examples and pertinent info.
The artist's life is the best life, if he can survive the first 40 years of it. --Thomas Hart Benton

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Post by weletthegoldfishgo » Fri Dec 18, 2009 6:18 am

I also noticed that in the Lindsay book the reproductions are the actual sizes of real labels. I think that for online purposes, a slightly larger than life reproduction looks better since the information is more readable. I plan to make my labels slightly under 6 inches diameter with a little vinyl black or color showing around it to set the labels off from the RCG website background.

So I've posted my first entry in the LP's/EP's section. Thank you for letting me be the first to post there. :D WOOHOO! :D
The artist's life is the best life, if he can survive the first 40 years of it. --Thomas Hart Benton

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Post by hrtshpdbox » Fri Dec 18, 2009 1:27 pm

weletthegoldfishgo wrote: I don't have every label example (and Jer has already menioned something like that upthread). So I'd like to contribute what I have, and then I, or anyone else for that matter, can come along later and post a missing label and the pertinent info.
Just re-thinking the labelography concept, and realizing that there can be different definitions, i.e. 1) an example of each variation of design within a label's catalogue, with pertinent info, or 2) an example of every record released by the label, including variations with the same catalogue number, when present, with pertinent info. It's obviously slightly easier to achieve 1) than 2).

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Post by kat1370 » Fri Dec 18, 2009 1:59 pm

Upon examining the forum description,
1) is considered "labelography" and
2) is considered "discography"

IMO, Barrie, what you're planning to do sounds good to me. I don't think anyone expects you to have a complete run of any certain label...although many collectors have that goal. Posting whatever you have will be a valuable documented resource. As far as filling in any gaps later on, I don't readily know that posts can be randomly inserted in that way. When threads are merged, they are done so automatically in chronological order, as 'loog stated.

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